You will find articles organized by categories, along with recent comments, along the right hand column of the website. If you are just getting started with the idea of converting a gas car to electric be sure to check out Your First Electric Car
Welcome and enjoy!
-Jerry
Still Crazy After All These Years · 8 June 08
First off, as a weak defense, most folks don’t plan to start a project and then have it delayed for a couple of years. But life comes at you in ways you can’t always control. You make the best of a bad situation, lemons to lemonade, etc…
All of that being said life is still crazy and yet I managed to get in a whole weekend of work on Eve.
My wife and our, now one year old, baby went away last weekend. It’s hard to believe that it was the very first weekend I’ve had all to myself in over a year. Not only is the house eerily quiet but when I pick up and put away a toy its stays that way. After procrastinating a little bit I opened up the garage door and took stock of Eve.
It’s amazing just how far I took her apart. Brutal, maybe even idiotic. Sure, it was interesting, informative, and fun at the time, but boy oh boy I can barely remember what or how things were left. And where are all of the screws? Wasn’t there a part that went here?
I spent one afternoon piecing together the dash and its electronics, bolting things down only to take them apart later when I found another part I’d forgotten. I’ll be perfectly honest and admit that there were a few moments when I considered that maybe buying a new donor car might be easier. There’s an instrument cluster that is 80% useless (oil pressure, heat: what’s that?) and a bunch of niceties (cigarette lighter, map light?) that aren’t going to make the cut. It’s a lot to sort out.
The next day, disheartened by the dash, I turned my focus on the back half of the car and restoring the plastic panels that form a thin veneer of cleanliness and order over rough sheetmetal and wiring. The panels, rescued from mice in the shed, had lost a little insulation but once in place Eve really started looking like a car again. Sure, turn around and look at the bare floor or crazy-quilt dash and that bubble was burst, but it was a start.
The third day of tinkering on Eve, sans-baby, focused on battery boxes. The week before, while looking forward to a baby free weekend, I’d seriously considered cutting into the sheet metal and starting to weld battery frames. What better way to move forward than some good old destruction and construction? (some will note that this is how I got into this mess, but I digress) After seeing John’s beautiful aluminum battery boxes I was very tempted to go that route, even sending out a few emails asking for advice. Luckily they all replied with, “Are you crazy?” (or something like that).
Why, yes, I am!
Don’t the seats look nice back in place? Kind of gives the project a glimmer of hope.
Ok, maybe I’m not that crazy. I pulled out the old battery boxes from our first EV and it looks like they will work nicely for the new batteries (still leaning towards Odyssey PC2150’s). So, the question becomes: how big of a hole should I cut in the trunk for the battery box? Measuring the space underneath and trying to eyeball where I’d be doing the welding for the frame, I got to wondering if it even needs to go that far. The batteries are only 9.5 inches high and, unless I really need trunk space, there’s no real reason to cut a hole in the trunk to sink the whole mess down a few inches. We’d only gain four or five inches of headroom, which really isn’t worth all of the metal work and cutting a whole in a perfectly good back end.
No, we’ll be making a frame for the battery box and NOT cutting into the trunk, just welding in supports and battery hold downs.
If you click to zoom in you’ll notice that the trunk photo was mocked up to show the approximate “frame” that needs to be welded and bolted to the frame. It also needs one or two cross-bars to support the middle. I picked up some angle iron the other day and will weld together the rear trunk frame first.
For the rear battery box on our Mazda not only did it have the angle iron frame, but we also welded steel bars to poke up the sides of the box for securing steel hold down rods. If you follow this link and scroll down to the third image you’ll see what I mean. That should work with Eve’s battery box too.
The front is more complicated. I have two boxes from the first EV (and one frame) and with a bit of imagination you could see some sort of contraption where they might work. But the main stickler is that the Ford Probe has huge motor mounts which are blocking the way for a nice, clean front battery box like I had in the Mazda (bottom photo). The mockup shows some possibilities, either making a single battery box (at an angle) or at least having the boxes sitting on the same frame. The good news is that the hood is curved enough that there’s a little wiggle room.
Notice in the photo on the left above that there’s a big hump sticking above the foam board mockup. I suspect it was part of the match-up to the gas engine, maybe integral for secure bolting between the transmission and engine or there was a part/shaft that went up through it. Here’s a question to any Probe aficionados or mechanics out there: can I cut it off? There’s a set of bolts a few inches below so it’s not like the motor mount would be less secure. Having the extra few inches make allow a battery box that goes all the way across, assuming I can figure out how to cut it off without destroying something. Just some idle thinking on a Sunday afternoon.
How funny! I just discovered ev a few days ago, and this journal. And now you’ve just reposted! Cool. Getter done!
Hi Jerry
Great to see you grasp that nettle!
I was making up a battery box for my EV today. it’s a 1 mm thick steel box which is going to be welded into the boot (trunk) where the wheel well now is. It’ll hold 6 batteries.
I have taken delivery of 6 Odyssey PC2150 batteries and going to get 6 more. And some great news for me: my Zilla controller has been created and it’s ready for shipping! Just chargers still to be determined.
Now it’s a race. See if you can get yours finished first!
Hi Jerry, I assume you mean that big-ish aluminum “knob” sticking up above the ell in your mock up. Isn’t that the boss where the starter motor mounted on the ICE? If so cut away. For cutting something like this off and a tip for future Milwaukee makes a great handheld portable bandsaw. pipefitters like to use them and some tool rental places have them. http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-6232-6-Amp-Portable-Band/
dp/B00005OBDR/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_b/103-1437871-1438242
Sawzall works well at such levels of destruction too. I am right at now at the tipping point of attempting my own EV conversion. I have been a gearhead all my life but spark chasing scares me a bit. The Eve wiring harness massacre story gave me nightmares! :^) Thanks for writing such a well written chronicle of the process and connecting same minded people.
Tim
Cute son you have there. Glad to see some update on Eve.
I found your website a few months ago, finally someone is doing something. I have a 152 acre farm in peterborough, nh, with a huge barn that should be a shop. I want to convert cars and make some money at it. Is this possible? I have the start up money if it can work. Can you give me some easy to read numbers that I can show to more investors?
It’s encouraging to see you start up the project again. I just bought a conversion car (‘65 Spitfire), and I’m trying to wade through the choices for motors/controllers etc. I haven’t even got to picking out the batteries yet! It’ll be nice to watch you go through the process again while I get started.
Thanks for the inspiration!
EV community,
i have friends in my town converting to bio fuels, oil from restaurants. after reading up on the politics around the EV; i find myself thinking why wait for Washington to catch up to technology available today. i would like to build an EV. do you recommend a place to start? thank you.
Great web site, a wealth of information and ideas.Hopefully I will start my conversion on a 4 door tray back toyota soon (fingers crossed).
Regards and Thankyou
Michael
Townsville Australia
Great to see you back! Like Dan, I have just started my conversion (also a Spitfire! mine is a 77) so it is going to be great seeing you working again.
Thanks for the wealth of information, Jerry. It is great to see you being able to spend some time with the conversion again.
Your work and pointers to research has motivated me, like several other readers here, to start my own conversion project.
I picked up a lovely 1990 VW Cabriolet that is just perfect for conversion. I am looking forward to the project :-)
I will be posting my progress in a similar fashion on my EV project site, “http://flashbone.serveblog.net/”: http://flashbone.serveblog.net
Cheers,
—Adam (Houston, TX)
I’m just starting out in EV. I have an ‘86’ Fiero that I converted to a Chevy small block now because of the price of gas I’m planning on changing it to EV. I am also a gearhead. A retired ASE master. Electrics don’t bother me I think it is the way to go. Could somebody answer a question? What about putting 2 smaller motors end to end? Running on one unless more boost is needed. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Let me know. dhotrum114@hotmail.com Thanks Dave
I echo the sentiments of Dan B and others. I would probably not be converting a fiat 124 spider if it wasn’t for your website. I even got me one of those little baby things, so now I can truly follow in your footsteps ;)
Glad your working on the car again!
Great website,loads of info. My son and I are converting a Bradley GT2 to 96V electric. After ready thru your site, we’ve decided to use the Trojan T-1275 12V batteries. Our local distributor says that the T-1275 is comparable to the J-150 but lighter and a little less expensive. We’re hoping to have the conversion completed by the end of summer.
Thanks for all the advise!
I have a 94 Ford Probe GT that I have considered converting to EV. It is an automatic so that may be something I will have to consider but I am finding your website very helpful as I try to plan this out and start the process. I look forward to seeing your progress.
Jerry, I want to thank you for providing inspiration. I learned enough from following your journey here that I bought a terrific little ’96 Probe “Donor” a couple of weeks ago, and am beginning the journey. I ought to be scared of a project like this, as little as I know about electricity — but I ain’t got that much sense! ;-) But then, a couple of years ago, I didn’t know much about Diesels, either — and we now have over 45,000 very successful miles on our ’99 diesel Suburban that I converted to run on Waste Vegetable Oil… I learned as I went — and am looking forward to doing the same on the this project!
dlaneman —
I urge you not to withdraw from the idea of converting your Probe… You will have the transaxle out when you remove the engine anyway, I can’t see how it should be that difficult to swap your auto for a junk-yard 5-speed while it’s out. The only thing I can think of that you’d need to change in that process would be a gear or two in the speedo, perhaps… Best of luck!
Can’t wait to see you finish “Eve”, Jerry!
Drizzle
Great. Tons of helpful information to get me started (still looking for a donor). Hoping to get an old VW Bug.
Found this battery and wanted to know it would be sufficient. Would like to be able to get ~80+ miles daily.
ebay battery
Voltage: 12V
Capacity: 12 Ah
Weight: 7.7lbs
Charging Current (Amps) 1.2
C.C.A. 220
Either go with 10 or 12. 120-144 Ah. If thats how it works :p And only 77-92.4 lbs. Is the charging current high enough?
Jacked up that link
Its ebay item# 160253054300
Hi Matt,
Unfortunately Ah doesn’t add up that way, voltage will add in series, but current doesn’t. So, in order to use those batteries and get the current/Ah needed there would have to be 12 batteries in series for your 144vdc and then duplicate this 10 or 12 more times. In other words make put ten rows of 12 battery strings in parallel with each other for 120 batteries!
Not worth it: the hassle, the costs, the wiring, etc..
Look for batteries that have the Ah rating you need and also look for batteries that are deep cycle. While you can use ANY battery only the deep cycle are meant for the kind of heavy duty drain/charge that you’ll be inflicting with an EV.
For 80 miles a day I would suggest two things:
- S10 pickup using 6 volt deep cycle lead acid (i.e. Trojan T105’s, check out or battery page)
- figure out a way to charge at work (I’m assuming it’s a 40 mile commute or so)
p.s. fixed the link for ya...
Ah. Got a little confused. Usually pretty good with numbers but having read through both your logs over the last 2 days, alot of it has merged together
Jerry – Glad to see your updating again!!!
Is your first EV still on the road?
How come nobody adds a small camper generator to extend the range of their EVs like hte coleman powermate – 90 lbs 1 gal gas tank and runs for three hours on a gallon assuming 1800 watt draw.
Chris (down in plaistow)
First of all i want to say that i love the idea of an EV. I plan on doing my first convert soon. My dad is a retired mechanic so i have someone i can go to if i get stuck. I just picked up a GMC Siera 4×4 with an eight foot long bed. I will be using an Advanced DC 9.1” electric motor with a double shaft. i will put in a 7 speed manual transmission(the original was a four speed but i will be using all of the gears so i bought a 7 speed to give me a higher top speed). as far as the batteries i will be using 4(maybe 5, hopefully 6 if they will fit) separate packs. each pack will use 48 3 volt 200 amp/hour batteries(the upside to being 16 and living at home and having a 1500 dollar a month job is no bills) (all four packs will be used simultaneously to avoid burning out the packs by draining too much power under full acceleration) so that the total drawable power will be 800 amps/hour (or 1000 for five packs or 1200 for 6 packs). Talk about power! anyway since i only make 1500 a month i will make the battery boxes and wiring for all battery packs but will start out with one and add on as i go. I will use a Curtis 1231C 500 amp 144 volt controller(i may save up and go with a zilla 2000 amp controller if i want to) to handle all of the amps required by the motor(the extra amps will add to the range significantly). The total runtime(the site says that the batteries have about 600 amps total so runtime is based on 50 percent Depth of Discharge, which is 300 amps) for 4 battery packs will be about 100 driving hours. that could be a good distance(i could drive for a whole year without recharging if i didn’t leave it turned off for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time). I know that this seems ambitious but if you don’t dream big then whats the poing of dreaming?
Im going through the EV calculator. Comparing these 3 batteries:
US-125 (6V)
T-875 (8V)
J-150 (12V)
Looks like ill do a 120v setup with an early VW Beetle/Bug. Its showing the 12V battery pack will give me the furthest ditstance. ??? I thought the 6V would be best. Esp since its Ah rating is 235 as opposed to the J-150 of 150Ah.
This is using an FB-4001A motor and Zilla 1k controller
Just got the Bob Brandt book and all of the questions I had racing through my head were answered there. As much as I secretly want a Electric sporty car a truck is best for my needs. So I am going to have my eyes out for a compact truck bargain. My biggest concern is cooling issues because I live in the desert. I am not a club type of person but I guess I will have to overcome that and talk to the local EV club or maybe join. Meanwhile I am riding a electric converted mountain bike to work. Great in the mornings and hotter than blazes in the afternoon. No problem with range or batteries yet.
It’s great that you got back to work on EVE! I am about ready to start gutting my car, but I am waiting until I get back from vacation because I will forget where everything goes! I also just finished my coupler drawings and hope to have it all machined by the time I get back.
Hey guys,
I just wanted to say that i will make a change in the batteries. Instead of using 48 3 volt batteries i will use a type of battery i found at my local autozone(1 hour from my house). they are 12 volt marine deep cycle batteries capable of outputting out 200 amps per hour and have 700 total amps. I am unsure of how many i am going to use but it will be at least 4 packs(i have enough room for 8 packs of these batteries) and it will cost me way less money. these batteries only cost 75 bucks tax included.
Silly question but how many batteries or how hard would it be to make a car like a Tesla Roadster? Would it be possible to install solar panels on the roof/hood to improve a charge?
and lastly if I have a 94 Toyota Celica would I be able to ‘shave’ the metal frame of the car to make it lighter to maybe improve torque?
I haven’t started on this at all and just think it would be a great thing to try because gas prices at $4+ is just outragous when I KNOW that there has to be a better way
If you can pls Email me at pogojoe73@hotmail.com I want to know if my ideas are ‘ok’ ideas at all… thanx!
Jerry, Thanks for the detailed descriptions of your conversion.I’ve got an 85 626 5spd. that I have maintained since new(for 3 owners)and I’m now thinking of making it an EV.I’ve got 2 sons who are approaching the ages where they can help(9&13)and after driving Steve McDonald’s Civic EV I want one.If you have any dimensional drawings or duplicate/unused parts from your 626 that you would be willing to sell I would be interested.I’m a 50 year old professional mechanic skilled at repair and maintenance but very unskilled and timid at design/build.If you have any ‘wish I had done different ‘things about the 626 I’d love to hear them-thanks again for the detailed info;good luck with Eve(and the boy)-Peter
Hi Peter,
Well, I wish I’d saved a few more things from the 626, notably the back battery frame as it would probably work just as well in the Probe.
Most of the design challenge is in the tranny adaptor plate, which you can get made by one of the EV part suppliers or with some “thinking and planning and skills” make your own. Of course its job is to mount the motor to the transmission in a solid, non-flexing manner pairing the drive shaft of the electric motor to the spline of the transmission as straight and true as possible. I show some pictures of mine on the original mazda conversion.
The battery brackets I bet you’ll have no problem with nor cleaning out the old engine and related parts. Feel free to ask questions and be sure to let us know how it goes (we love pictures of EV guts!).
Hey Jerry,
I’ve read your blog on your first EV, it was very insteresting and had a lot of information, and when I finished reading it I was disapointed that there wasn’t anymore to read about it. But then right afterwards I noticed you were working on your second EV ‘eve’. Your blogs and they way you describe things make it very interesting! I can’t pull myself away long enough to concentrate on what I should be doing. I’ve always been interested in making my own EV, but wasn’t sure where to start and who to ask for help if I got stuck. But since I stumbled across your site and read your blogs I feel like I’ve converted a few EVs in my previous life :).
I plan on convering my own EV this winter since it’s the only time I’ll have the time and money for it. Just one thing that’s bugging me and putting me at a halt… you haven’t finished your ending! I need to know what type of batteries you get so that I’ll know if there worth it or not. I’ve had everything picked out since I read your first EV project, but I’m undecided on the batteries :(. I only need 20 miles to get to work and back, but would like at least a rang of 40 miles. Plus I might be going back to college to get my Bachelor’s and that’s 70 miles away from home. So if it’s worth it I’d like to get maybe 80 or more miles one way with maybe a 70% DOD max if possible. Don’t think the cost of the extra range will be worth it but we’ll see. So hurry up already and finish! The suspense is killing me!
Oh, forgot to tell ya great job on the site and good to see that your getting closer to being done with eve. Did you set your goal for before or after winter?
Also, do you happen to have an updated battery list with current prices? Just curious because your last list was helpful, but about 2 yrs old. Thanks.
Great stuff!!! I love this site. I am building a 35 ford truck. It has a factory flat bed from 37. It has lots of room for batteries under the bed. I can install any transmission and rear axle that I want. Do you have any recommendations? Standard, Auto, American, Import??? Lots of fun out here in California building a modern street rod. EV style.
That’s a really good idea to use a 35 ford with a 37 flatbed. wish i could find one.
anyway it would be better to use a standard transmission. you can get rid of the clutch if you want but i would keep it. there is a post somewhere here that explains that reason. Using a clutch and shifting from one gear to the other allows the motor (both gas and electric) to use less power while getting the same amount of torque at the wheels(try driving a gas engine in second gear all of the time, it’ll be the same for the electric motor). if you drive in an area of little traffic then it doesn’t matter but if you drive in stop and go traffic most of the time then keep the clutch and shift like you normally would a gas engine.
P.S. look at dr. larry’s post and see if you like that battery setup. he used everstart maxx deep cycle batteries from walmart. i personally think these are better becuase they output 125 amps per hour(and hold about 500 amps at 0 Fahrenheit) and most deep cycle ev batteries only output 100 amps per hour(and only hold around 150-200 amps at 0 Fahrenheit). Plus the everstart maxx are only 60 dollars and the 100ah deep cycle ev batteries are about 200+ dollars. And the everstarts weigh about 20-30 pounds. the ev batts weigh 80-120 pounds per battery.
Jerry, remembered that your drive coupling on your old ev slipped into your motor. Mine did the same thing. Did you end up dimpling the shaft or just retighten your set-screw? Did you see the problem reoccur? Also, what was the first sign your batteries needed replaced, quick voltage drop, unable to charge? Otherwise my 240SX conversion is still doing great 2 years and counting. Thanks for the inspiration! …Woody
Jerry,
Thanks so much for posting your very informative and inspiring blog!! I am hoping I might be able to get in touch with you via e-mail as I am now the proud owner of a ’96 Ford Probe that I am planning on converting. If you have time between Eve and the baby :)
hi michael
i really like the probe. it is looking very good after the wash. can’t wait to see what you do with it.
Hi Jerry,
I read both of your EV Blogs this summer, both of which are well thought out and written. Have you done anything with Eve since?
Eric
http://optuszoo.news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=648550&rss=yes
have you seen this battery Jerry ?
i can’t wait to see what the independent tests say.
Stay far clear of Eagle Picher. I work for a company which utilized those batteries for a project which could be considered similar to an ev. Absolute junk. No life cycle at voltage disconnect of 11.4 volts, which was our approved set point. Maybe 100 cycles… no support and we ARE a big company. Still rebuilding their plant which burned down in Jan last year?
However in their place we used the aforementioned oddesy batteries which have been running in some case as long a year…..
Hi Jerry,
Now that gas is low again, I hope you are not abandoning your project. I have been reading and gathering needed information from your site for a while, and I am looking forward to seeing you finish EVE. Hope to hear from you again soon.
KO
Thanks for all the work keeping up the dialogue regarding the conversion. I have only scanned it, but will review in detail. I am very interested in doing and e car, but will have to find some help with the heavy work.
Thanks again and keep us updated.
Jack
A noob’s question for sure but I was wondering why use a transmission at all? If you get rid of the trans and mount your motor coupled to the drive shaft or in the case of a front wheel drive use a double ended motor with each shaft coupled to an axle shaft with an over running clutch on one side. This would cut down on the rotational mass and improve power to weight ratios, and lower frictional losses. An electric motor is much easier to balance than an ICE. So it should run with a lot less vibration at any given rpm if properly mounted and aligned. If final gearing in matched to the motoer it should work. So what am I missing?
It’s primarily an issue of the motor’s ability. DC motors, the ones predominately used for EVs, have a limited peak RPM due to the brushes. AC motors have higher peak RPM ability, but are also more expensive and harder to find.
There’s also the issue of fabricating drive assemblies for direct drive, which is more complicated (and again costly) than a simple transmission adaptor plate.
Anything is possible, given the money or other resources, but for most hobbyists attaching a DC motor to the existing tranny is the most cost effective and do-able approach.
Hey Jerry, i’ll be posting a link to my EV page on the EV album soon. i ran into a bit of rust trouble with the probe and sold it and got me a 1996 Mazda 626 with a blown engine. i will be taking a picture tonight and post it tomorrow. i have also made some configuration changes to the electric drive system.
stumbled upon your pages while researching for info for my first conversion . I should have tried one sooner ,but things got busy in life. any suggestions as far as veicle selection, and as far as i got either direct drive or using manuel tran?which is better.
Hey Jerry, when are you gonna give us an update?
I have a 1990 Pontiac Grand Am that is sitting up in a shed and reading about your 2 conversions is getting ramped up about converting it to EV. I stumbled on your site after Watching “What Killed The Electric Car” and when I was searching out controller stuff via google.
Jerry are you still working on Eve?
Hows it coming? You have saved me so much time. Please update.
Hi Jerry
My name is Deepaks ,I am from India ,i am from the place where they are manufacturing the worlds cheapest car i.e Tata Nano,i am trying to build a EV motor bike but the problem wha ti am facing is i am unable to get the type of motor and the controllers and the guidelines to build ,as you know if you can send the details of the type or configurations of the motor like how many watts,RPM,HP should i choose a motor it would be really great.I appreciate your reply.
Has there been any work done on EVE at all since last June?
I teach auto tech at a technical highschool, may I reprint your information for my students, I will give you the credit? Bill